Intensive Care.... Let's unpack it!!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Just a disclaimer. We are not doctors. We are not medical professionals. We are just two girls who have survived sepsis that are navigating their recovery. [00:00:07] Speaker B: If there is anything that you are seriously struggling with, we urge you to contact a GP. And if you think that you might have sepsis, you should seek immediate medical care, as sepsis is life threatening and time critical. [00:00:19] Speaker A: We just wanted to pop a little trigger warning in as well, that this podcast may contain content that listeners find distressing. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Please listen with care and always remember to be kind to yourselves where possible. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Hi, guys, and welcome back to episode three of the surviving and thriving podcast. I'm Taz and I've got Olivia with me again. [00:00:39] Speaker B: Hi, guys. Welcome back. [00:00:41] Speaker A: And today we thought we would take a little dive into talking about all things intensive care. But first I thought we could kind of round off talk about sepsis awareness month and kind of all the things we got up to and achieved over September because it was a pretty crazy month for both of us. So, as you can tell, we've had a few weeks without episodes because life gets busy. But we're back now, and I thought we would talk about everything that's happened over the last month. Okay, so I guess I will kick us off first and talk about all the things that happened and, well, I guess to start with us starting a podcast was a pretty big moment in September. And again, we just wanted to share our gratitude and love to all of you for support, all the support you've given us. And we've had so many beautiful messages from both people that have had sepsis and find this super comforting, but also lots of people that haven't had sepsis but have found it super informative. So I just wanted to share my thanks. I don't know if you've got anything you wanted to say. [00:01:51] Speaker B: I think this sepsis awareness month felt really different. I feel like there was a lot more hype about it. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:01:59] Speaker B: And I feel like a lot more, like, compared to last year, what I remember, a lot more people were talking about it. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:02:06] Speaker B: It was so good. And I just felt like there was more of a buzz around it and I saw a lot more, not even, obviously, like my feet, things come up about sepsis because obviously it's what you're interacting with, right? Yeah, lot more. I saw a lot more that I didn't think I'd see, which is amazing. And I don't know about you, but I keep seeing all the ambulances as well. A lot of them look a lot more like signposted and everything to sepsis, which is amazing. But I do feel like a lot more people are talking about it, and I've had a lot more messages from people, like, saying that, like, they've seen videos, all our podcasts and everything, and that they've actually, like, noticed signs and symptoms really early and they've managed to be treated with it, which is such a inset. You've had messages like that as well, right? Yeah, no, it's saying that feeling of people like, you saved my life, because if I didn't know. Yeah, crazy. [00:02:52] Speaker A: And I guess it kind of, like, pinpoints and underlines that the only thing that. The main thing that we need to save people from sepsis or kind of help people along the way is awareness. We don't need, like, these big, fancy things. It's literally just people knowing about it. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, nothing that people like. Like you said, that's literally it. There's no, like, you don't need to know and go and get this medicine or need to know how to do this to save a life or anything like that. Like, you know, like, with, like, CPR and if you really need to know, which is crazy. Like, that's. There's nothing like you need to know other than the signs and symptoms, which is. Yeah, I just felt like this sepsis awareness month was just different to last year. It felt there. Felt like a bit more of a buzz about it. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think there was a lot more coverage in the. The kind of mainstream media, which felt good as well, because obviously, like you said, we see quite a lot of stuff on our feed because, you know, we work with charities and we're interacting with that kind of content. But, you know, I'd, like, have the radio on at home and there'd be a segment on sepsis, and I'd be like, it's just great. And it just feels like it shows why sepsis awareness month is so important, because I guess people probably think, oh, my God, a whole month dedicated to something. But it just allows that space for people to share their stories, to have their voice heard, which I think is so incredible and amazing and how easy it is now to share stories. And, you know, we've got all the platforms, TikTok, Instagram, where people can just. I've seen so many people be like, oh, I haven't spoken about this before, but I. I wanted to share my story now. And do, you know, it's so inspiring that people this year especially, have felt, like, the bravery and, you know, the confidence to speak out about their story. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And sometimes I, like, I don't know about you, I know that you don't have, like, many photographs and stuff of you in hospital, but sometimes when I share those of me, I'm always a bit like, oh, are these a bit much? Are they gonna. Are they gonna trigger someone? Although I do try and trigger warning all the time, but. But then I think, actually, it's not too much because that happened to me. We lived through it. You know, you live through that trauma. Yeah. Experience. So. And I think there was, like, there's a quote, right, about, like, healing in. Healing out loud. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:12] Speaker B: You know, I think that that's really important and people's stories aren't too much, and we do need to hear about it because this is what happens and this is what can go wrong. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Just, like, having the platform to share that. I think TikTok and Instagram is amazing for that. Like, people should be able to share their stories. And it does help so many people because, like, videos that reach so many places in the world as well, especially places that maybe sepsis isn't, like, spoke about so much. Because I know in the UK we are getting better, but there are countries it's just not. Not spoke about. And also the. I don't know if you watched the Coronation street, but that's amazing. It's on tv story about sepsis, you know, like, these things that haven't ever happened before. I don't. I can't remember any. So, yeah, it was a great. [00:05:57] Speaker A: And I think that, you know, maybe before, there might have been storylines that were highlighting things, not even just sepsis, you know, any medical emergency. But now I feel that big shows like Coronation street, they're taking into consideration kind of the factual, like, getting Ron, who we had on the podcast, in to work with them on the storyline, it just elevates everything much more because it's factual and, you know, people can actually watch the program. No, there's a bit, like, I guess, a stigma around soaps that everything's dramatized and. But it's not. That is actually what happened. Like, what happens in, you know, different circumstances every time. But it's really nice to see them taking into consideration the correct kind of protocol and factual evidence of things surrounding sepsis. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And to have, like, something that you've lived through, like, on tv, and then, you know, that so many people are going to see it. Right. Because, you know, when you're in recovery, you sort of want it when it gets to the right time. You want to help as many people as possible and spread as much awareness as possible. So to see it on tv that, like, thousands of people are already going to be watching, not because it's an episode about sepsis, people will already be watching it. Yeah, I think that's exactly what we needed that this month. I thought it was a really good month. [00:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, like, felt really lucky that I managed to get involved with quite a lot. I've got quite a close relationship with the sepsis nurses at the hospital that I was treated in. And we did a big event on World Sepsis Day. And I went into the hospital and I, you know, like, considering the resources and how busy a hospital is, they make such an effort all the time to shout loud about it. And they had a virtual quiz that could win you prizes and all of these things, which you best believe. When I saw that quiz, I was like, I need to get 100%. So I was there. Stood there. Yes, I got 100%. I was like, this will be really embarrassing if I don't get 100%. After, like, yapping on at people to know the symptoms. And through the UK sepsis Trust, I managed to do a few virtual talks through Zoom, which is also really great because you get to reach lots of community nursing groups, which is brilliant nurses that go out into the community. And I was just sharing my story. And there's always that fine line of me telling medical professionals about sepsis, but I really think that there's a difference between training and looking at it on a PowerPoint and seeing what sepsis is when you're training to be a medical professional and hearing some actual story. Every time I speak, people say it just hit completely different. [00:08:51] Speaker B: 100%. Like having a real life account of someone, because that's just about being human. Right. Like that and everything. So having a real life person who's been through it doesn't matter like that you've not got a medical background. [00:09:03] Speaker A: You. [00:09:04] Speaker B: You still know what. And I always think that, like, don't. I think a lot of people might discredit that and think that, oh, imposter syndrome. [00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:11] Speaker B: You're not medical professional, but actually, you probably know more than someone. You've lived through that. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:17] Speaker B: And it's more. More important to you than ever because you have lived through it and you really want to spread awareness. Like, yeah. All in all, I thought it was a pretty good mom. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was great. And, you know, just because it's over, you know, me and Olivia, we're not going to stop sharing and talking about it, because we will never stop. We'll never literally. And I've had so many. I put up a little roundup post on my story yesterday, just like six photos through September. And I had so many messages of people being like, I hope you know how inspiring this is. And I think sometimes this is not like me or us being like, we do such great work, but because we're so passionate about it, it doesn't feel like we're doing great things. It just feels like it. We just have to do it. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes I do think, oh, God, like, I'm rambling on, but then I'm like, actually, no, I'm not rambling on. Like, you know. You know, it's that feeling of I don't want to really, like, be a nuisance or annoy people. I'm like, if you don't want to follow it, then you don't have to, like, yeah, I'm going to share what I know because you never know. Like, there's a girl who lives near us and it was really, really weird. Like, when I look back, I'm like, that is so strange. So cut a long story short. And I know her sister and Callum knows her, but I didn't really know her and accidentally one day last year, requested to follow her on instagram. Embarrassing. But she accepted it and then requested to follow me. And I just thought, oh, like, that's fine because I got, like, followers or something. But anyway, so she, like, we ended up following each other and then I was, like, sharing my sepsis things. And then she went into hospital, she had a baby and then had, like, post part and sepsis. But it was really weird because she messaged me, like, oh, no, we've never spoken before, but I went into hospital and, like, the only reason I knew was because of what you shared. I'm like, that was really weird because it mean to follow her and, you know, you know, like, don't know who you're gonna help. [00:11:08] Speaker A: And I always say this to people, I'm very much one to kind of, like, play down things. And people always like, oh, it's so great, like, what you're doing. And I always say to people, like, the first thing I say is that if throughout the whole time I'm sharing stuff about sepsis, which will be probably for the rest of my life, that it helps one person in 1015 years, and they're like, oh, remember that annoying girl that used to brag on about sepsis on her story and they spot something and it saves someone's life. If that. If that's it, if that's all that doing all of this does, then it's a job well done. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It's one life, isn't it? [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:45] Speaker A: So I guess, you know, us guys, we're just gonna go with the flow. Probably end up on a tangent, but you guys seem to like it, so we're gonna go ahead. I guess the first place to start is talking about intensive care in the sense that, first of all, I guess it's important to say that intensive care is an incredible place. Like the things and the people they save in intensive care I will never be able to fathom properly. But also when you're at your most vulnerable, being in a place such as intensive care can, although it's saving your life, I do think there's argument towards that. It's such a traumatic place to be that when you're in your most vulnerable, it can have long lasting effects. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. I. I think that. I've always said I think it's one thing having sepsis and being in hospital and everything, and then I think the intensive care side of it, it's like a whole other recovery because. Yeah, like the, the effects of sepsis on your body are obviously quite significant. And then that it's not only that, it's then the intensive care and all of the interventions in intensive care and not just everything that's done to your body in intensive care, but like you said, like being in intensive care and like. And like experiencing time in intensive care, like when the things that you see is wild to me. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that. I don't know, I have to say personally, I actually, I mean, I've spoken to my therapist a lot about this and whether I've blocked out my time in intensive care because of trauma or whether, you know, a lot of the time, especially when I first went into intensive care, that I don't remember a lot of it because, you know, I wasn't. I don't want to use the word conscious because obviously I technically was conscious, but kind of in and out. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:56] Speaker A: So I guess I kind of feel grateful that when I was kind of at my worst, I don't remember too much of it. But, you know, and we say these things, but there's nothing that can be done to make intensive care a nicer place because the reason you're in intensive care is because you are so poorly that you need that kind of intervention. So there's like, even though we talk about these things, isn't I want to, like, reiterate to everyone, it's not like we're saying intensive care needs to be less scary because we both know that the reason that we're alive is because of how intensive care is run so well. Yeah. [00:14:35] Speaker B: People don't realize. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think a lot of people don't realize that, like, there's a. Because I never knew this. There's a criteria that you have to meet to be taken to intensive care because it costs so much money and everything and it's such, like a high dependency area. And there's only, like, my hospital had 24 beds, so obviously tiny, like. [00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah. In comparison to hospital, if people think of it like that. Because 24 beds, people are probably like, well, that's like a lot for a ward, but for a whole area. Do you know what I mean? Like, a hospital covers a whole area. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah. And my hospital obviously covers the whole of Portsmouth and everywhere surrounding it, Southampton and everything. So, like, that is not a lot. But I think that people don't realize that there is a criteria to meet to get into intensive care and that. Because I never knew that. And I always just. I didn't ever consider it. Not that I sit and think about hospitals a lot anyway, but before I went into hospital, because I was so. Well, I never, ever thought about the hospital, ever. No, I'd never been to hospital, never had a hospital say, I was so lucky. I was so healthy and fit and I had no problems. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker B: I never considered it. And then when I went there, you're like, you have no idea, like, what we know now. But, like, when I think about now, I'm like, wow. Like the work that they do, the things that they do, like saving lives every single day, practically. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:58] Speaker B: You just know it was going on. [00:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I like talking about the criteria stuff. At the John Radcliffe in Oxford, they've recently redone the whole of intensive care. I say recently, it was kind of like post Covid new intensive care wards opened and it's over two levels, so they kind of categorize. So if you're on level two, obviously if you're in intensive care, you're poor. Yeah, there's no, there's no saying that, but. And if you're level three, then you're, like, very unwell. And I spoken about this before that. I have quite a close relationship with one of the nurses that worked with me. Worked with me. I don't know if that's all right saying, but, you know, I mean, during my time in intensive care, and I kind of reached out to her after my stay through social media, and I was desperate to find her because she literally, she was incredible. And I speak to her now and we'll go for a coffee. And the thing, like, she just says, it's so blase. She's like, oh, yeah, I did this today and save this person's life. And I'm like, you are actually a superhero. I don't think you understand how incredible you are. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think they do either, because they're so. I. I found a lot of them are quite not. I don't say embarrassed, but they get a bit like, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is just my job. [00:17:21] Speaker A: And I'm like, just your job is incredible. [00:17:24] Speaker B: It's incredible. Yeah. Literally. And I always was like. And I think it's, like, quite a. It's very weird because I'll be like, you saved my life. Like, I went into very weird, you know, when you're in a place at the right time and I was in Costa and I hadn't seen the nurse. There was one nurse. You'll probably have it, like, there's just one person that stands out to you. It was just like, I think it's. When it's like a pivotal moment of you getting better. Yeah, it just stands out to me. And I saw her in the queue and I sort of had to double take, and I went up to her and I was like. Because I knew I had to. I was like, because I'd seen her, like, once and didn't say anything. And then I knew I had to say something the second time. So I was like, I went up to her and just said, like, you looked after me. And she. She didn't reckon. She didn't remember me because obviously she sees this year later, and obviously I looked so different. I wasn't like. [00:18:15] Speaker A: I know, yeah. [00:18:17] Speaker B: I was like, I hope you don't mind me saying, but, like, I felt like I had to come over and say, like, you saved my life last year. And she was like, I think they. I think they are, because it's their job. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:29] Speaker B: They see the significance, but to us, they saved our life. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:33] Speaker B: You know, like, she does that every day. Like, you're. You're not Barbara, right? Yeah, Barbara, he does that every day. So she's not like. [00:18:42] Speaker A: I guess they're, like, desensitized to it a bit. [00:18:44] Speaker B: She doesn't go home. So I saved, like, this girl's life today. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker B: But, like, us, we're like, we'll always remember because that's like, you don't think it's normal for people to nearly die? [00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah, literally. [00:18:56] Speaker B: And that's how significant it is, right? Yeah, it's not that normal, but it's such a weird environment to be in. Like, even when you're, like you said you're. You're conscious, but you're obviously swinging in and out of, like, you're, like, hallucinating and everything. How, like, the mind works and how your brain sees things and, like, digest things. Because I think I said this a lot as well. Think that waking up is. There you are, like, almost a bit more. How do I put this? When Callum said to my sister, like, she come to visit me, he said, I'm just pre warning you. It's a lot in there, like, yeah, what you see is a lot, but when you wake up there, it's not because you're. Yeah, you know what I mean? [00:19:43] Speaker A: It is weird. Like, yeah. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Callum had, like, say. He said to my sister, like, it's really weird. Like, it's weird. Like, it looks. Everyone's so unwell. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:54] Speaker B: But then when you wake up, you're just, like, not. It's really weird. I think. [00:19:58] Speaker A: I think you're just. I just remember that I was just grateful to know that I was getting looked after. And obviously, when you're in intensive care, it's pretty much a one to one ratio. I know sometimes that is two to one and things change depending on staffing and how busy it is, but you have someone with you pretty much constantly and I think that is a bit of a relief when you're so unwell. And I think that's something that perhaps when you have sepsis or anything and you're in hospital, that that's actually probably a bit scarier knowing that when you're on a ward, you don't get that 24 hours care and you kind of feel like. I remember coming off of intensive care and going to the warden. Yeah, they dropped me to the ward, the intensive care people, and kind of left and I rang my dad and I was like, they've left me here, they've forgotten me. Like, no one knows I'm here. And he had to ring the ward. Cause obviously I couldn't stand up and go and speak to anyone and they were like, we haven't forgotten. Like, we've lit. She's literally been in there two minutes. And because I was so used to having that 24 hours care that it felt so alien to me. [00:21:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. [00:21:08] Speaker A: I was by myself. [00:21:10] Speaker B: It's crazy, isn't it? And I always remember, like, Callum would come see me, he's visiting me. And I had this one nurse. I feel really awful that I don't remember his name. I really want to say it was Paul, but it was, like, right at the beginning when I was, like, really, really still used and everything. So my mom wasn't, like, in the right place. But honestly, they just sit at the end, don't they, on their computer? And what, do they just watch you the whole day? [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:37] Speaker B: And I. He walked off to do something, like, sort out something, and I'd cough and he ran, like, sprinted back. Are you okay? Are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I just coughed, but because they're so, like, high alert. And then, and then I moved down to an orthopedic ward and I dropped my medication on the floor. And this is. No, I get there. So busy. They are so busy. Yeah, I dropped on the floor and, like, you, you know, you can't move. [00:22:06] Speaker A: You can't do anything. Yeah. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Way I was moving and I lowered my bed as low as it go and I couldn't reach it, so I pushed my buzzer 45 minutes. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:22:16] Speaker B: But I was like. [00:22:18] Speaker A: And it's such. It is such a shock, that transition. And, you know, we'll go back in the timeline because I feel like we skipped over. But, like, when you leave intensive care, that transition between one to one care and then on award shared with however many people. And I was very lucky that I was actually in my own room. I know that that isn't. No, and I don't. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Like, I would have coped. I don't think. I don't think I would have coped. [00:22:45] Speaker A: No, I don't think I would have either. [00:22:47] Speaker B: I don't know about you, but, like, even moving into a room, I remember when they took me down, I was literally, like. I felt like I was traumatized. Like, I couldn't believe. I couldn't believe it because it was quite late at night as well, which I don't know why they do that. [00:22:58] Speaker A: They did that to me as well. And it was so they said to my parents, well, to be fair, I was also begging to leave intensive care. I was like, am I right? Because all I wanted to do, because I knew that if I left intensive care, I was one step closer to getting home. Because I know that you can't. Originally, I asked if they could just send me home straight from intensive care, and they were like, babes, that's not happening. And I was like, right, get me out of here first, then. And then I'll get myself home. And they were said to my parents, because, like we've mentioned before, the visiting times at the John Radcliffe are great in that you're basically seven till seven, that you can have anyone visit two people, but they could stay the whole day. So my parents were there every single day from seven till seven and they. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Said, that sounds like such a luck. Your hospital sounds like. No disrespect to QA. [00:23:45] Speaker A: No, honestly, the John Radcliffe is incredible. [00:23:50] Speaker B: They were so stingy with my visiting times. Like, even the sister, I think she was the sister of intensive care, came up to Callum was like, you need to leave. Like, you can't be here. You've been here so long. Like, you need to go. And he was like, she literally can't stop crying. That is a time when you need people that you love the most. So, yeah, and I do get it. Like, they're really busy and they need, like, I think they will also say, like, oh, it's to give the patient time to rest. Like, I don't want rest. [00:24:17] Speaker A: And also, like, you just don't. Like, you don't. You actually just don't rest when you're in intensive. Like, I don't care what anyone says. You. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Did you sleep? I don't. [00:24:25] Speaker A: I didn't sleep. I did not sleep. But, yeah, it's mental. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Like, one solid night's sleep I didn't have for, like, I'm not joking you. Two months, like, like, go to bed at ten, wake up at six or something. No. No way. You've had a lot more therapy. I haven't had any. I had, like, a bit of EMdr, but I've not, like, spoke to anyone about it and, like, I. But I've got this, like, really weird I. This is going to sound really, really weird, this really weird sense of home about intensive care. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Like, it feels like I know a lot of people really, like, I think, and I think when I've gone back there, like, I've been back once, I used to work in hospital, I don't anymore. And I think I told you this, they didn't purposely, but were like, olivia, please can you go to e five to get this? And as soon as she said e five, I was like, oh, God, it's intensive care. Yeah, go and get this done. And in hindsight, I should have said no, but I was so, like, I need, I need to go there. [00:25:24] Speaker A: Like, yeah. [00:25:26] Speaker B: So I went and the minute I. The door opened and. Because even just being on the same floor. It just feels weird to me. So I have this, like, really weird want to go there, but, like. Because it feels like a safe place for me. But then I'm so, like, when I'm there, like, when I walked on the ward, I was like, oh, my God, I felt like I was gonna have a panic attack because I could hear everything. I could see everyone rushing around. But I don't know about you, but, like, it just feels like. It sounds really weird, like a warm place for me. I think that's because of how kind everyone was, though. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I think I get what you mean. I can't relate to that feeling as much. But I. I do understand what you mean in the sense of, like, you're at your most. You are at your most vulnerable there. And even though it's a scary time, you are surrounded by so much love when you're in there. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Whether that's platonic or from your family. But you are support. Like, you do feel like you are the forefront of everyone's priority. And, like, as. I don't know, egotistical as that sounds, that's a comforting feeling to have when you feel like you're being fully supported. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Yeah. A hundred percent. And, like, they do their ward rounds everything, right. And there's like eight people at the end of the end of your bed checking your progress and everything. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:45] Speaker B: And I just. That I felt. I think it is the feeling of safety because when they said they were moving me, I was like, oh, my God, like, what if something happens to me? [00:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I had the same feeling. [00:26:56] Speaker B: I'm not here. And I used to always think, oh, God, what if something happens to me? And if something happened to me in intensive care, I'm like, well, they'll deal with it because they know what to do. And there's someone watching the whole day. [00:27:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Whereas, like, when you move, you have that. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I don't know, I guess that intensive care in general is. It's so hard. And like you said, in terms of, like, therapy and what I've spoken about, I also went to visit intensive care. Obviously, yours was in a different circumstance because you were also in a professional level, which I can't even imagine how difficult that must have been to have to kind of, like, keep your cool and also be experiencing all of this stuff. But again, the aftercare in terms of intensive care, at the junior, you get, like, an appointment after. And they asked me, I kind of spoke to them about the things I was struggling with with trauma and PTSD and these things and they, Barbara was in the hospital at the time and they said that if you want to go up to intensive care to see if it will just help you. I don't know. You know, like people say when they have a breakup and they need to have a final chat to, like, closed the chapter. And they were like, if you feel like you need that, then we're happy to get someone. There's always someone in the junior on call to take people up for visits if they feel they need it. So I text Barbara and I was like, please, can you come with because I'm scared. And she said, yeah. So she came down with me and I had such a, like, you, I had such a strong urge of, like, I want to go up there because loads of people have said that it helps, but I was also so nervous and anxious of going up there because I'd been. At that point, I was struggling quite severely with flashbacks and panic attacks. So I was like, and I was by myself because I'd gone to the appointment by myself and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do it. And I remember we walked through the doors and it wasn't too bad. Sorry, say that. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Sorry. I said, did you see your bed space and everything? [00:29:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So I walked up and it wasn't too bad when I walked up because obviously when you go up, when you're in hospital, you go up in the patient lift and you're in a bed. So I didn't really recognize the way up because I hadn't walked up there, but they walked me in there. And I, like, then I got my bearings from when I used to do, like, laps round for the physio woman who used to make me walk round and I kind of got my bearings and I was like, oh, my God. So he went down and I, the other woman was like, do you remember what bed you were in? And out. And then Barbara was like, she was in ten. And I was like, oh, what a legend. So she kind of took me round and I remember the second I walked around the corner, I just complete, I just walked straight. Like, I saw there was a man in the bed that I was in and Barbara's like, do you want to? And I was like, I just walked straight through and straight back out the other door. I was like, I cannot do this. So I've been up there. But for me, it wasn't much of a healing experience because it was just super overwhelming and I, and I found it really hard to compartmentalize that I was there now as a healthy person. As opposed to when I was there before. It was really tricky for me to do that. Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Your hospital sound a lot better with that. Like, I haven't. Don't get me wrong, they are. They're amazing. And I know that they're really, really busy, but, like, I wasn't offered that visit up there. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I know, which is really strange to me. [00:30:39] Speaker B: I've had the follow up appointment where they like. But I was a mess. I was so comfortable and everything, and everything that they were saying, I was just like, this is awful. Everything's awful. Yeah. They. I think I felt like it was a. The appointment was like a data collecting thing where they're like, oh, yeah. Because they asked me about my nails and. And have you had hair loss? And are your nails like this? [00:31:02] Speaker A: And let me. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Are you going to the toilet? And it felt very. It wasn't personal. [00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah. A box tick. Yeah. [00:31:08] Speaker B: And I always felt like it's that, like, oh, they want to check stats and things and see how. Cause they were asking me about, like, did you hallucinate? What hallucinations do you remember and everything? And I almost felt like they were just, like, doing it for their, like, data, not like, I don't feel like that aftercare was amazing. Yeah. And also, like, I would have really loved because I don't always think I want to be that person. Please, can I come up and see where I was and. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no. I would. I would never have asked, like, off the patient. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Don't you? [00:31:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:40] Speaker B: To feel like, oh, like you can come up here and everything. And I never really got that. I've never had that still. And I just think I just. Your hospital sound really good with that. But I do feel like that aftercare could be better. Do you like, generally for people. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, you know, it's a hard one as well because you can't really tailor it because everyone's needs are so different because whereas some people, like I said, I've seen so many people in the support group that I'm part of for the UK sepsis trust that say that going back to visit the intensive care unit has literally, like, made, like, made them feel so much better. Whereas for me, I didn't find it that comforting at all. So I guess in terms of, like, no, no, I don't think. I honestly just think that I've accepted it for what it is and, like, I just don't want to, like, try and force myself to feel positive. Like, I'm like, you know, we say I'm a very positive person, but I don't want to try and force myself to feel these positive emotions towards something that was so traumatic to me. Does that make sense? [00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And you don't have to, like, you mean there's no, like, oh, you should feel this way and everything because at the end of the day, like, you nearly lost your life there, so you're never gonna feel all happy about it. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess that maybe in 1010 years, if I happen, like, if I found myself back in a position where maybe I'd feel different, but right now, I just don't feel like it serves me and my, like, healing journey to force myself to go up there. You know? Like, I've done it once, and I guess it was helpful in the way of, like, standing and looking at the bed as opposed to being laid in the bed and being the patient. So I guess in a sense, that's kind of healing, but it's definitely. I don't think it served me in the way that I thought it would. [00:33:38] Speaker B: When you're expecting an outcome and then it's not what you imagine, you're like, oh, that's really disheartening. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And. But to be fair, I think that I don't even know if I found it disheartening in a way. I just was accepted in the sense of, like, oh, perhaps that's just not my way to heal. Like, perhaps that just doesn't serve me the same way that it served other people. And that's completely okay. If I went back to the ward, maybe I'd find that helpful because I wasn't in such a vulnerable and traumatic place. Do you know what I mean? So maybe it's just different for different people. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I do think, like, because I don't obviously, like, missed five days of my life. [00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Think that, like, I don't know. I think that I would like to go there. I also find it really, really hard to put yourself in those positions where you're trying to heal or wondering if it can heal a part of you, but then you're surrounded by people, and then you've got to, like, cry. You're nothing. Not got to cry, but you know, when, like, yeah, romantic for you. And then you're, like, stood around loads of people that are probably, like, you know, you're like, yeah, really vulnerable position where, you know you're gonna cry. You know, you're gonna feel vulnerable. And I always think, like, I maybe would ask to visit if I felt like I wasn't gonna have a have a breakdown, but I will have a breakdown. I'm not gonna put myself in a position where. Cause a lot of people are like, it's good to cry. Like, you should go and get it all out. And I'm like, no, thanks. Like, I don't really want to feel that way. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a weird one as well, because, like, kind of diving into that a bit, and I guess I think that we've kind of spoken about that we're gonna have another episode on trauma and, you know, mental health side of things, but for so long, I'm talking, like, I'm a very emotional person. Like, very emotional. My whole life, I've always been told, like, ah, taz is crying again. Like, always. Like, I even had to learn, like, in college, dance college, to, like, suck my tears in, because, like, I'm just an emotional person, and I used to, like, despise it, but now, you know, I think it's one of my superpowers in the sense of, like, I can feel so deeply and love so deeply, and, you know, that it's great. But when I came out of hospital, I didn't cry for probably a year. I could. I couldn't physically squeeze a tear because I think I was just so traumatized that I was like, what the hell? Like, I found it so hard to. Because, like, being emotional is such a. I don't know, normal, like, comforting part. I don't know how to explain it, but, like, it's such a part of me that because I didn't feel like myself, perhaps I wasn't able to tap into that, but I think, like, it was really weird. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Yeah. You expect to be the most emotional. [00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah. To be crying all the time. And I remember saying to my therapist, I was like, I can't. I can't cry. Like, I literally can't cry. It was weird. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Do you feel like. Like. Because you've obviously had therapy. I haven't, but do you feel like what happened to you happened to you, or do you feel like you're. No. Do you feel like you're watching? Yeah, basically watching from out. How weird is that? [00:36:50] Speaker A: It's the weirdest feeling. And I. Like. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Some days I'll look at videos or I'll be making, like, a TikTok or something and I'll be a mess or I'll hear a noise and I'll be like, oh, my God. Something that will trigger me. But it's really weird how if someone asks me, I'm so numb to it, it feels like I'm just telling someone else's story. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:37:12] Speaker B: It's weird, I think, because, like, when I'm alone, it's awful. But then when I, someone asked me about it, although I'm like, oh, like, I can talk about it. [00:37:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:23] Speaker B: But it feels like I'm telling someone else's story, not mine. [00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's literally exactly the words I said. Like, basically when I first, it took me ages to go. I say ages. Going to therapy for me was like a massive thing. Like, no one in my family has been to therapy before. I didn't really know what therapy was, but I knew that people said that it helped. And I was in such a horrible place. I was like, I've got to give it a shot. Like, I might as well give it a shot because the worst, it doesn't help. And, you know, I remember I went every week, which, let me tell you, is not cheap, especially when you can't work, but I went every week. [00:38:05] Speaker B: That's a lifeline. Yeah, it's not, Russell. Like, I always think that's so sad. Like, that's another topic I'm not going to get into. But, yeah, if we all just access, like a three free therapy or it was more reasonable. I get that. I'm not saying reasonably. Prices in there, overcharging, they're not. But, you know, like, oh. Only it was accessible to everyone. Yeah, it would. It would help so many people. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Then obviously, like, I went. So I think it was like, I went every week for about two, three months. And for the first six weeks, Sheila, I was, would not, I would not go into anything. Like, she'd try and get out of me and I'd be like, I'm actually all right. And she was like. And she was like, why are you paying to come here then, taz? And I was like, good question. Um, maybe I'm not telling you something that's weird. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Or maybe, like, maybe we can wrap this up then. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe let's just finish this up and I'll go back to crying in my car. [00:39:03] Speaker B: I'll just cry myself to sleep. [00:39:06] Speaker A: I'll go back. Sorry. It's our trauma response. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Laying in bed crying all day. [00:39:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And I said to her, I was like. And she'd ask, but I would tell her the story. Like, and I obviously volunteer, so I tell the story quite a lot in, like, that setting where I do take the emotion out of it because otherwise it would tear me apart every time I did it. But when I tell it, I don't feel that emotional because it's just like, I'm, like you said. I said to her, it's like I'm telling you a story. I'm not telling you my story. I'm just telling a story, someone's story. [00:39:47] Speaker B: And it's not yours. [00:39:48] Speaker A: But the fact that it affected me so badly, but then I could just tell it off the whim, like it was nothing. It's a really weird dynamic to have. I don't know how you feel about that. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Um, yeah, I think that. Do you know what? I think that I've thought about a lot over the last, like, couple of months. I think that my brain has, like, put it away. [00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:13] Speaker B: You know, like, your brain stores things so that you don't, like, obviously you can survive. So I feel like. I feel like my brain's just, like, put all of this away and there's a lot I don't remember. Yeah, and obviously there's a lot of don't remember anyway, because I was ventilated for five days, so, yeah, I lost five. Five days of my life. So obviously I don't remember that. But, like, even waking up from that, I don't remember. I don't. I can't tell you the first interaction I had with anyone after that. [00:40:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:43] Speaker B: And, like, even having, like, conversations with, like, Callum and my sister, that will, like, bring back my memory. So, like, I'll be. They'll say something and then it's really weird how I'll remember it now, even though it happened nearly two years ago. [00:40:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Like, something happened to me, like, that long ago that I just forgot. [00:41:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's like I was mentioning earlier in the episode that it's really hard to tell, especially in our situation, because the sepsis can cause delusion quite quick. Like, quite quickly, is that it's hard to tell whether you can't remember it because of a trauma response or you can't remember it because of how poorly you were. And I think that's a frustrating part of it because you're like, am I blocking it out? Because if I'm blocking it out, that's really annoying because I think that part of it could help me heal, but it might also just be that I don't remember it because I wasn't in that state of. Do you know what I mean? It's a really weird one to navigate. [00:41:43] Speaker B: It is 100%. I think we could go into it again and again. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Which is probably the same with every topic of this podcast. Like, we could talk about cows, go. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Home every time we go over it, we'll have something new to say. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of the beauty of this podcast, you know, like, we. We are also like, as well as the listeners, we're also discovering things for the first time. So I think it's, you know, an amazing thing that we're able to be given this platform and this space to discuss topics like this. Because, like, all in all, you know, if me and Olivia met up and we spent all of our time talking about this, we'd probably be like, oh, my God. Like, all we spent time is like, hash rehashing the past. But we're so lucky now that this platform gives us the space to talk about it in a safe environment with each other that is also informative for other people and hopefully can be comforting for other people 100%. [00:42:50] Speaker B: And like I said, all we ever want is to just ramble away and hope that it just helps someone feel, feel less alone. Because obviously we're not, like, professionals at this. We're just trying to help people. And I think that just talking about it as much as possible is just going to do that. It's just going to help people feel less alone. And that's all I'd like. I think that we could talk about these topics forever because every day we feel differently about what's happened. So I think that ultimately, all I ever want, and I know that you feel the same, is to help people feel less alone. So if someone is going through recovery, they might listen one day and just think, I felt that, like, I really. That can resonate with that. And that's what we ever want, isn't it? Is just to feel, is to make people feel less alone. Because this, I always say this is the podcast I needed when I was recovering. And I just really wanted somebody of like, my age, you know, like someone that was not saying we want. We want everyone to be able to listen, but, like, to have that, like, representation of, oh, they're like me, they might recover. Wow. Like, you know, you know, like, just to see somebody that you think, oh, my God, they've done it. So I can. That's what I'd like. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Definitely. And I guess that we hope that we're providing that for you guys. And obviously, this episode we've covered quite a lot, but hopefully this makes especially our listeners that have been in intensive care or have had a family member that's been in intensive care understand it from a patient perspective and a patient point of view. And I know that we've kind of dipped in and out of the actual experience in intensive care and also the after effects. But hopefully, all in all, you manage to pick up a few things without us waffling on. Yeah. [00:44:43] Speaker B: And I didn't really want to go, like, too far into it and then stray away to, like, both part, like, real personal. [00:44:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker B: Account everything. It's just more the experience. And to be honest, we have just rambled on this episode, but we could just go into it again in a different episode and really, like, dive into, like, things that we saw and went. I also feel a bit. I'm very sensitive about what I share because I don't want to be sharing other people. Like, I don't want. Oh, I saw this man who had this wrong with him and I was talking to this person, you know, like, that's nothing. Yeah. So I always just try and speak from, like, what I remember without sharing too much of, like, other people's experiences because, you know, like, we've both got things that we can remember about other people. Totally not okay to just share other people's. [00:45:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, they're in a vulnerable position too. And we're lucky in the sense that, you know, because you don't find out about any of these people after you leave intensive care. So we don't even know that they're. They'd still be here to. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Exactly. We hope that they are, but, like, it's not for us to sit and. Yeah, about that. [00:45:43] Speaker A: So hopefully you guys got a good kind of overall perspective of what it's like to spend some time in the wonderful place that is intensive care. And I know I say that sarcastically, but it is true. It is an amazing place in terms of the work they do there. Perhaps it's not so fun to be a part of from a patient side, but we're both very grateful for the work that they did for us in, like, a desperate time of need. But I think Olivia might have a little quote. [00:46:18] Speaker B: I always try and pick one that resonates with the episode. Yeah. So mine today is the wound is not my fault, but the healing is my responsibility. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it isn't our fault. No, but it is our responsibility to understand. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Yeah. There's no one else that can help us heal but us. Really. Like, I know that you can get professional help, but. [00:46:44] Speaker B: Yeah. It's ultimately down to us, isn't it? [00:46:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know what? Gonna say we're absolutely smashing it. Look at us almost two years on and look at all the things you've achieved. [00:46:53] Speaker B: Two years. [00:46:55] Speaker A: What the frick. It's so weird to. [00:46:58] Speaker B: It is weird. But, as ever, grateful to have you, Gail. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Oh, grateful to have you, too, babe. But I guess that's us wrapping up the episode. We're gonna love you and leave you. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Yeah. We'll be back next week with maybe some juicier, more constructive pods. [00:47:15] Speaker A: Yes. But hopefully this was a little fun one for you to listen to. We also apologize for any background noise you may have heard. Both of us are juggling life right now, so if you heard any bar or babbling, then. [00:47:29] Speaker B: And we have an honorary member of thriving and thriving today. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, we do. Yeah. Olivia's nephew Arthur, is. Has been our little first guest, but, yeah. So we're, you know, as professionals, we like to make this as much as we can. We're also just two girls trying to make this thing happen. [00:47:49] Speaker B: Yeah, we are. [00:47:51] Speaker A: Give us. Yeah. And I guess we'll see you next week. [00:47:55] Speaker B: See you next week, everyone. Bye.